This post was prompted by reading about another doomsday cult exposed. Not all cults or radical Christian groups are that extreme but perhaps they share a theme.
I've commented previously about the huge number of "Christian" denominations. A common pattern is that a naturally charismatic person gets a radical idea which he or she reckons is a divine "revelation", and attracts a number of followers who are already disillusioned with their own faith or lack of it and are looking for meaning in life. Feeling they have been helped by this one person's ministry, after a while they become so blinkered that they fail to take appropriate action when they detect error. At the early stage the group claims that they have revelation beyond any other group. If they are to remain loyal, members are told they must take radical steps like setting up a wilderness community. The group adamantly denies being elitist or being "another denomination" and decries the idea of a "one man ministry" but time proves otherwise. Eventually the main leader is recognised for what he or she is, or is superseded or dies and thereafter the movement's teaching dissipates or gradually declines and resolves into "mainstream Christianity" but we are left with yet another denomination.
Here are some examples:
Methodist (John Wesley),
The Peculiar People (James Banyard),
Quakers (George Fox),
Shakers (Ann Lee),
The Move (Sam Fife),
Mormons (Joseph Smith),
Plymouth Brethren (John Darby).
You might disagree with some of my examples or you might think of others but my point is the common theme. And we know this theme, because we have been there, done that - under a particular "ministry" but, mercifully, we escaped relatively unharmed. But we hear rumours of those who were physically abused or were forced into debt not of their own making. I do not think in our case that the leading ministry was intentionally manipulative: it was just the way he was, and we weaklings followed as the lamb to the slaughter. One lesson to be learned is to take off the blinkers.
Showing posts with label peculiar people. Show all posts
Showing posts with label peculiar people. Show all posts
20190821
20180805
On the fringe - or - never able to arrive at the truth
It is a universal truth - though largely ignored by some die-hard archaeologists - that there is no known culture in the world without religious beliefs (Terence Meaden, Archaeologist, Oxon). An interesting observation - some would say it is because there is a "God shaped hole" in everyone.
I have a rich Christian heritage but more to the point where am I now? Like in "But whom do you say that I am?".
I remember cringing when someone we used to visit would ask me "and what has God being doing in your life?" - because I could never think that there was anything in particular.
My earliest church memories were of Alresford Congregational church. Later we went by train to Winchester Baptist Church where I, tacet, would sometimes sit beside my father on the polished organ bench. His own folk were at various times nonconformist evangelical, Baptist and Peculiar and his father was at one time a reverend.
Speaking of which, the ‘The Peculiar People’ were initially quite a fiery bunch but, doubtless after a generation, their zeal diminished. They later changed their name to the ‘Union of Evangelical Churches’ and their web site now says "divine healing does not now have such prominence..." If folk really were healed once, this seems a strange statement to make. Like, we don't want any of this getting better stuff.
My parents then joined NFC from whence stem most of my childhood church memories. Here I went to Sunday School and later the Adventurer's Club, was baptised, and first spoke (briefly and timidly) in public. Open Brethren based, I am thankful for the good knowledge of the Bible that NFC instilled in me, but I must have been suitably indoctrinated because, when I left home for college, I naively considered all other churches inferior and probably heretical and was surprised when I discovered committed Christians from other persuasions. In my final year I agreed to become the OICCU "Rep" for my college and, under considerable duress, was obliged to sign a statement of doctrine. It wasn't that I had a problem with anything there but I disagreed strongly (and still do) with the need to sign.
Whilst in Oxford I tried various church flavours including the James Street brethren assembly (now re-branded "evangelical") - the folk there were very friendly but I didn't fit in. Plain contrary to my upbringing I ended up most at home in the reasonably high Anglican college chapel - because the chaplain cared about my well being, because it was local and because I found I could worship God there. Despite the occasional smells and bells.
On finding my feet in my first job I started to attend CBC where I met and married Ali, and when we both wanted to be involved in young people's work we first had to become church members which implied signing up to their doctrine, which I once again did under much duress.
Both Ali and I wanted more than CBC appeared to offer and thus we met together with like-minded folk of similar age. One year the group had a holiday-cum-conference hosted by a Christian community in Eastleigh and this was our first introduction to communal living and The Move.
You can Google The Move and its founding leader Sam Fife and you'll find a lot of nonsense as well as some truth. And sure there was some nonsense, doubtless because of People. We had our share of this nonsense but thankfully nothing serious - because we were on the fringe. The Wikipedia link is rather dated and things have changed, mellowed - a bit like the Peculiar People I wonder?
That Sam Fife (who I never met) was a "one man ministry", or at least the dominant leader, did raise warning bells in me but, hang it all, wasn't Jesus also a "one man ministry"? The thing is, some of what Fife preached his followers now don't go along with - at least they no longer emphasise - like "people of God we are not going to die" and the "wilderness message". If those radical areas that so intrigued his followers are now mellowed, do we revert to being plain evangelicals?
Probably not - Ali's parents were, for a time, Exclusive Brethren. When they left, not being able to stomach some of the more radical and intrusive teachings, her father could never feel at home in any other church flavour, none of which had the same sense of family and depth of conservative doctrine, so ended up without christian fellowship for the rest of his life. I think I might have done similarly.
A recent guest on the Ryan Tubridy Show on RTE-radio-1 told how, when he was about six, he saw an angel standing beside his bed. He hadn't told anyone else for years but much later his younger brother (who had shared the bedroom and would have been less than two at the time) asked him if he remembered the angel. So did that really happen?
I once saw an angel. I was a child sitting up in my bed at home. The angel was standing on top of a chimney stack on a building opposite my bedroom window: much taller than a human, with wings and shining white. Certainly not a cloud formation! But it might have been a dream - I cannot remember clearly: did that really happen?
My Aunt Mary claimed she had seen angels. She claimed all manner of things, mind you, but it would be wrong to discredit her experiences just for that reason.
If we cannot confirm whether recent extraordinary things like these really happened, what chance have we of confirming stories about a man who lived 2,000 years ago? Most historians concede that the man Jesus existed - but they get woolly about the miracles. Did they really happen? On the other hand why would anyone writing a Gospel account chose to blatantly lie?
Along with many others, I have a burden for a child with leukaemia and have earnestly prayed for his complete healing. His father is a Methodist minister and he also is praying for total healing: I would interpret this as "faith". But whilst there has been good medical progress, currently there has been a relapse. I am at least encouraged when I read "See that you do not despise one of these little ones. For I tell you that in heaven their angels always see the face of my Father who is in heaven". It's not the end of the story, of course, but I had hoped... But maybe I am missing something, maybe his being healed now would spoil some vast eternal plan?
His position is gently ameliorated here but, honestly, with things we can, at best, hardly detect, who can say whether our theories are correct?
In our early community years we were already convinced about home schooling our kids. We listened to a CLA teaching about legal cases where the US child protection authorities took kids from their parents and, on their advice, we decided to eschew child benefit to cut one possible hold the government might have on our kids. Years later I think of all that cash we didn't get and see all the young parents here taking child benefit without a thought. And yet I read the other day Norway's hidden scandal - so were we so stupid? I certainly have no regrets about home schooling. Our four children have not grown up with carbon copies of their parents strange beliefs as some think home schooled kids will, but each are now making their own choice as to how they should live and what they should belief, as is right and proper. And I am proud of them.
I like to think that I am searching for truth (though probably not nearly hard enough as in strive to enter in at the strait gate: for many, I say unto you, will seek to enter in, and shall not be able). But I am allergic to religious or hypocritical sort of "truth". Like in the parable of the leaven in all three measures of flour: I suppose the Kingdom of God must attract error.
In searching for truth I find myself coming back, again and again, to the gospel accounts of the life of Jesus. I try to read them without the preconceptions I grew up with, and I find a very human man with emotions and a sense of humour, who enjoys a good meal, who gets tired and thirsty after a long journey. Here I might add (though the accounts leave it out) that doubtless his body sweated and needed washing, that he had to go to the loo, cut his finger nails, and all the basic stuff we experience but don't generally advertise. But in this human frame he did only what he understood his Heavenly Father wanted, and thus he wrought amazing miracles, and he was crucified and died "to make us good". And I get goose-bumps when I sing:
and
I have a rich Christian heritage but more to the point where am I now? Like in "But whom do you say that I am?".
I remember cringing when someone we used to visit would ask me "and what has God being doing in your life?" - because I could never think that there was anything in particular.
My earliest church memories were of Alresford Congregational church. Later we went by train to Winchester Baptist Church where I, tacet, would sometimes sit beside my father on the polished organ bench. His own folk were at various times nonconformist evangelical, Baptist and Peculiar and his father was at one time a reverend.
![]() |
| Winchester Baptist Church |
Whilst in Oxford I tried various church flavours including the James Street brethren assembly (now re-branded "evangelical") - the folk there were very friendly but I didn't fit in. Plain contrary to my upbringing I ended up most at home in the reasonably high Anglican college chapel - because the chaplain cared about my well being, because it was local and because I found I could worship God there. Despite the occasional smells and bells.
On finding my feet in my first job I started to attend CBC where I met and married Ali, and when we both wanted to be involved in young people's work we first had to become church members which implied signing up to their doctrine, which I once again did under much duress.
Both Ali and I wanted more than CBC appeared to offer and thus we met together with like-minded folk of similar age. One year the group had a holiday-cum-conference hosted by a Christian community in Eastleigh and this was our first introduction to communal living and The Move.
You can Google The Move and its founding leader Sam Fife and you'll find a lot of nonsense as well as some truth. And sure there was some nonsense, doubtless because of People. We had our share of this nonsense but thankfully nothing serious - because we were on the fringe. The Wikipedia link is rather dated and things have changed, mellowed - a bit like the Peculiar People I wonder?
That Sam Fife (who I never met) was a "one man ministry", or at least the dominant leader, did raise warning bells in me but, hang it all, wasn't Jesus also a "one man ministry"? The thing is, some of what Fife preached his followers now don't go along with - at least they no longer emphasise - like "people of God we are not going to die" and the "wilderness message". If those radical areas that so intrigued his followers are now mellowed, do we revert to being plain evangelicals?
Probably not - Ali's parents were, for a time, Exclusive Brethren. When they left, not being able to stomach some of the more radical and intrusive teachings, her father could never feel at home in any other church flavour, none of which had the same sense of family and depth of conservative doctrine, so ended up without christian fellowship for the rest of his life. I think I might have done similarly.
![]() |
| Seen in Texas 3 days ago |
A recent guest on the Ryan Tubridy Show on RTE-radio-1 told how, when he was about six, he saw an angel standing beside his bed. He hadn't told anyone else for years but much later his younger brother (who had shared the bedroom and would have been less than two at the time) asked him if he remembered the angel. So did that really happen?
I once saw an angel. I was a child sitting up in my bed at home. The angel was standing on top of a chimney stack on a building opposite my bedroom window: much taller than a human, with wings and shining white. Certainly not a cloud formation! But it might have been a dream - I cannot remember clearly: did that really happen?
My Aunt Mary claimed she had seen angels. She claimed all manner of things, mind you, but it would be wrong to discredit her experiences just for that reason.
If we cannot confirm whether recent extraordinary things like these really happened, what chance have we of confirming stories about a man who lived 2,000 years ago? Most historians concede that the man Jesus existed - but they get woolly about the miracles. Did they really happen? On the other hand why would anyone writing a Gospel account chose to blatantly lie?
Along with many others, I have a burden for a child with leukaemia and have earnestly prayed for his complete healing. His father is a Methodist minister and he also is praying for total healing: I would interpret this as "faith". But whilst there has been good medical progress, currently there has been a relapse. I am at least encouraged when I read "See that you do not despise one of these little ones. For I tell you that in heaven their angels always see the face of my Father who is in heaven". It's not the end of the story, of course, but I had hoped... But maybe I am missing something, maybe his being healed now would spoil some vast eternal plan?
We humans are rum creatures. We think we know so much and yet we know so little. Our understanding of science, when descriptive and thus concerning things we can measure now, is all very well. But when it becomes inferential, concerning things long ago or yet to come or far, far away or far too small, who knows whether we have it right? I sometimes wonder whether, if you look hard enough with a preconceived dogma, nature will oblige. Thus the double slit experiment which could be thought to answer to two apparently contradictory theories.
There's people who genuinely think the earth is flat. Or this guy who goes along with the electric sun hypothesis and writes:
Yet, here is an incredible thing. Even though the theories of Newton, Einstein, and Twentieth Century astronomy are blown to pieces on almost a daily basis by what is actually out there, yet modern man has refused absolutely to let go of those dis-proven ideas... And so to explain how "gravity" can do all these wondrous things, the mathematicians have pulled out of their hats such unprovable bits of nonsense as "dark matter," and "black holes," and "string theory," and "nuclear fusion," and so on. None of these fantastical ideas ever find their way into a practical laboratory because all engineers know they are complete fabrications. Governments have spent untold billions of dollars to duplicate "nuclear fusion" on earth to complete and continuing failure. Why? Because there is no such thing. That's why it takes government money to build the huge "super colliders." No private business would waste a penny on such nonsense. So, let's look at astronomy as it really is. The universe is electrical. The sun is a large solid ball of rock that sustains a vast and continual electrical arc lamp discharge above its surface exactly like the electrical arc used by welders. That electrical arc is fed by huge currents of electricity that flow down the arms of the Milky Way to its center.
There's people who genuinely think the earth is flat. Or this guy who goes along with the electric sun hypothesis and writes:
Yet, here is an incredible thing. Even though the theories of Newton, Einstein, and Twentieth Century astronomy are blown to pieces on almost a daily basis by what is actually out there, yet modern man has refused absolutely to let go of those dis-proven ideas... And so to explain how "gravity" can do all these wondrous things, the mathematicians have pulled out of their hats such unprovable bits of nonsense as "dark matter," and "black holes," and "string theory," and "nuclear fusion," and so on. None of these fantastical ideas ever find their way into a practical laboratory because all engineers know they are complete fabrications. Governments have spent untold billions of dollars to duplicate "nuclear fusion" on earth to complete and continuing failure. Why? Because there is no such thing. That's why it takes government money to build the huge "super colliders." No private business would waste a penny on such nonsense. So, let's look at astronomy as it really is. The universe is electrical. The sun is a large solid ball of rock that sustains a vast and continual electrical arc lamp discharge above its surface exactly like the electrical arc used by welders. That electrical arc is fed by huge currents of electricity that flow down the arms of the Milky Way to its center.
His position is gently ameliorated here but, honestly, with things we can, at best, hardly detect, who can say whether our theories are correct?
In our early community years we were already convinced about home schooling our kids. We listened to a CLA teaching about legal cases where the US child protection authorities took kids from their parents and, on their advice, we decided to eschew child benefit to cut one possible hold the government might have on our kids. Years later I think of all that cash we didn't get and see all the young parents here taking child benefit without a thought. And yet I read the other day Norway's hidden scandal - so were we so stupid? I certainly have no regrets about home schooling. Our four children have not grown up with carbon copies of their parents strange beliefs as some think home schooled kids will, but each are now making their own choice as to how they should live and what they should belief, as is right and proper. And I am proud of them.
I like to think that I am searching for truth (though probably not nearly hard enough as in strive to enter in at the strait gate: for many, I say unto you, will seek to enter in, and shall not be able). But I am allergic to religious or hypocritical sort of "truth". Like in the parable of the leaven in all three measures of flour: I suppose the Kingdom of God must attract error.
In searching for truth I find myself coming back, again and again, to the gospel accounts of the life of Jesus. I try to read them without the preconceptions I grew up with, and I find a very human man with emotions and a sense of humour, who enjoys a good meal, who gets tired and thirsty after a long journey. Here I might add (though the accounts leave it out) that doubtless his body sweated and needed washing, that he had to go to the loo, cut his finger nails, and all the basic stuff we experience but don't generally advertise. But in this human frame he did only what he understood his Heavenly Father wanted, and thus he wrought amazing miracles, and he was crucified and died "to make us good". And I get goose-bumps when I sing:
...Risen with healing in his wings
Mild he lays his glory by,
Born that man no more may die:
Born to raise the son of earth,
Born to give them second birth...
[Charles Wesley]
[Charles Wesley]
There is a green hill far away,
Without a city wall,
Where the dear Lord was crucified,
Who died to save us all
We may not know, we cannot tell,
What pains He had to bear;
But we believe it was for us
He hung and suffered there.
He died that we might be forgiven,
He died to make us good,
That we might go at last to heaven,
Saved by His precious blood.
There was no other good enough
To pay the price of sin;
He only could unlock the gate
Of heaven and let us in.
O dearly, dearly has He loved,
And we must love Him, too,
And trust in His redeeming blood,
And try His works to do.
[Cecil Frances Alexander]
[Cecil Frances Alexander]
Interestingly Cecil Frances Alexander, née Humphreys, second daughter of the late Major John Humphreys, Miltown House, co. Tyrone, Ireland, b. 1823, also author of All things bright and beautiful... The purple-headed mountain, the river running by might well have lived at or at least been associated with Humpreystown House, in which case those purple headed mountains are the ones we see across the lake at this time of the year, and the river might be the Liffey or Kings River.
20161230
Peculiar people
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| Evangelical church, St Annes Rd, Southend |
The building in the picture used to belong to the Peculiar People, as in you are a chosen generation, a Royal priesthood, an holy nation, a Peculiar People, a denomination that seems to have been restricted to the Essex area and started by one James Banyard. My father's parents and Aunty Mary used to attend another church in Southend but at some point the two churches joined forces. I remember attending meetings when both pastors, one from each church, were in operation. I think they took it in turns to preach. One was Pastor Danes and the other Pastor Peters. I do not know which one was "peculiar". But I do vividly remember Pastor Peters reading the passage from John 20 with such passion that I felt like I was an onlooker...
And she (Mary Magdelene) saw two angels in white, sitting where the body of Jesus had lain, one at the head and one at the feet. They said to her, "Woman, why are you weeping?" She said to them, "They have taken away my Lord, and I do not know where they have laid him." Having said this, she turned around and saw Jesus standing, but she did not know that it was Jesus. Jesus said to her, "Woman, why are you weeping? Whom are you seeking?" Supposing him to be the gardener, she said to him, "Sir, if you have carried him away, tell me where you have laid him, and I will take him away." Jesus said to her, "Mary." She turned and said to him in Aramaic, "Rabboni!" (which means Teacher).
I remember a man in the congregation, Smee by name. He had a boil or pimple on his face (children remember such things) and sang the hymns lustily but, being tone deaf, totally out of tune. Someone commented on this and he responded that he did not care what he sounded like - nobody was going to stop him praising his Lord. That anyone could have such devotion meant a lot to me at the time.
There was Renee who sang Oh Holy Night with my Aunt. Renee would dig into her handbag and fetch out little bits of paper with maybe a picture and a Bible verse written on them for us children. I don't rightly remember what we did with them: her intentions were no doubt good but I cannot recall the verses changing my life in any way.
The church had a choir, composed mainly of older folk, indeed the whole congregation was mainly older folk. Every Sunday meeting the choir would sing an anthem. I used to enjoy this simply because it was variation, but what relevance the anthem had to the rest of the meeting alluded me. Apart from that it was the usual "hymn sandwich" with a lengthy sermon thrown in towards the end.
My grandfather used to play the pipe organ with me sharing the organ bench, but maybe this was before the merge.
I found this picture on the internet, it being the closest I could find to another memory. My Aunt took me to a meeting in a dusty church hall, I know not where. There were wooden chairs arranged in a circle and a harmonium, and everything was dusty and looked like it was a relic from some bygone era. My grandfather was into mending organs and I have inherited from him a harmonium reed puller which is a very useful though simple tool for getting things out of awkward places. A harmonium is a reed organ (aka pump organ) with bellows operated by the feet and a number of "stops" which all sound much of a muchness because there is not a lot you can do to alter the noise a brass reed makes. They were quite common in small chapels at the time. Anyway, back to the meeting, I think we sang a hymn (possibly Mary played the harmonium) and otherwise it was a prayer meeting which, if you are a child, is hardly the most interesting of activities. It is often not much better when you grow up.
When I read, in my link to the Peculiar people, mention of a Mr William Perry of Southend my memory was once again tickled. My grandmother, who owned and drove their Ford motor (Ginty never learnt to drive), often spoke of Mr Perry who ran a car sales and repair business and I wonder if it he was the one healed? Which reminds me of another instance when she was driving us back from church and did something silly like running a red light and explained afterwards that she had panicked so closed her eyes and prayed and hoped for the best. The best apparently happened for here I am to tell the tale.
In 1956 the Peculiar people were renamed the 'Union of Evangelical Churches" and, like so many other movements started by a particular individual, waned in popularity and extremism. This site says only 15 churches remain open within the UEC.
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